Re: A dumb question

From: Francisco Gómez García <>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2017 09:32:17 +0000

May 2, 2017 8:35 AM, "Steve Litt" <> wrote: > I also am surprised you could get Gnome to work without systemd. Just > for fun, try out LXDE, and install dmenu and have it at the ready > with an easy hotkey. I think you'll love the productivity > enhancement, once you get used to it. Yes, GNOME works, and on its entirety! No missing features on Void so far but GNOME Software (because of xbps and PackageKit, naturally). Who could have guessed that they didn't need to enforce their init of choice to make the desktop of their dreams? While LXDE is not of my taste, I did try out i3 with dmenu, as in fact I had it set as my default X session on Arch like half a year ago. It works really great overall, but from time to time I find myself being too specific about which programs I want to launch and how, often going to the terminal instead (as it usually provides richer autocompletion) - or even worse, I just end up using the GNOME apps but without the GNOME desktop, completely breaking the workflow. Besides, one of my computers is a Microsoft Surface (please forgive me, I'm a sinner), which means high display density and touch input, something that I have only seen Enlightenment and GNOME handling well enough. I don't know what's with suckless tools in general that they seem so close to doing their job right, but always become a little too hard and effort-demanding for my taste. Perhaps it's a matter of time, but for now I'm sticking with GNOME, even despite its overhead. I end up saving time by just pressing Super, typing what I want and getting it. > You'll meet plenty of people like that. He almost certainly hasn't > tried Runit. If "barely maintained" is why he recommends systemd, > he's just flapping his gums. You're right, he has not been bothered to try it - because of that. It's the > Or, maybe, he's a systemd sycophant and you backed him into a corner > where he couldn't enthuse about systemd because it's better than > sysvinit, as if those were the only two choices. No need to back anyone into a corner, since that's a very common reaction of Systemd fans after being talked about *any* potential alternative, as if could only mean going back to sysvinit, having a subpar service management system, losing compatibility with "modern" software and eventually breaking everything by the means of a malfunctioning script. And I believed so at first, after unsuccessfully trying out OpenRC on Arch and Debian. But not the case anymore, in part because I got better at reading and typing stuff on a keyboard, in part because Runit is just so good. > Pre-cisely! As of 2014, it did everything it was supposed to do, and > did it according to specification. The niche it fills is as the simple init, so there's no reason to add features. Keep in mind there are still bugs to be fixed and things to be polished, see // XXX comments on the source code. It's not perfect yet. And the person who told me the "it is too old" thing used arguments such as "it will eventually not compile" - while I doubt a small codebase on plain C will stop compiling in the near future, it is indeed something to keep an eye on. Anyway, the response is somewhat what I expected and I'm glad Runit meets my best expectations. > Last time I looked, there's one guy maintaining it. That one guy > wrote it, and every once in a while he fixes a bug or whatever. But > here's the thing: He isn't riding his software to fame and glory, so > he feels no need to cram more and more features into it: And that's > the way I like it. Good. Don't keep needless or wrongfully-placed features rolling, I just need my computer working at its best and letting me work at my best. But keep in mind also that "updates" are not intrinsically the same as "new features". > Runit's so simple I could maintain it that if Gerrit Pape dropped > dead tomorrow, I could pick it up and maintain it. That's the benefit > of having software developed by one guy. Aaaaaaand that's the part where I absolutely fall in love with the UNIX philosophy, KISS and such. Actually understanding how your computer works and being able to tweak it if *really* needed, free software at its best. It can't be the model for everything (e.g. web browsers and Emacs), but if it can work, it certainly is great. I have checked the source code, so I can trust your words - it seems that even someone yet a long way to understand everything computers like I am could fork it and make the right improvements with a bit of patience and time. So, in essence, that was the reply I was looking for. > But wait, there's more. Let's say Gerrit Pape and I are on the same > airplane and it crashes in the Andes mountains. No problem, there's > another init system called s6 that's extremely similar to Runit, and > you could switch between the two without breaking a sweat. I also assume that every human being who could possibly understand the source code of Runit dies as well, and the surviving ones could still keep coding s6 while Runit keeps being one of mankind's greatest mysteries? So yes, Alex Efros told me the same on his reply. I have just looked at it on, and it does seem to work mostly like Runit. That's reassuring, for sure! > Yes. Guys like your friend somehow manage to sound soooo convincing, > even though they give you almost no facts. Runit's an excellent > choice, whether your distro shipped with it or not. The arguments were solid enough to be corrected on a single e-mail. > Meanwhile, Void Linux has been the most trustworthy distro I've ever > used. It's a rolling release that almost never has bugs, and you > don't get into jams the way Arch people do. And any time you need > help, you can go to #voidlinux on FreeNode and talk to lots of > experts. > > Void's the best: Don't lose your enthusiasm. To be honest, I did find myself with what seems to be a bug this early on the Glibc version of Void. In short, if I encrypt the boot sector with LUKS, I must type my password twice, and their guide for fixing this behavior doesn't work to me. Still, to me that's a minor annoyance, I can type my password twice rather than leaving my computer and its data with an open door for everyone. Overall, really happy with Void and Runit. Thank you for your support, uhm... > Steve ...that, Steve! Glad to be part of both communities! ^_^ Francisco / @espectalll
Received on Tue May 02 2017 - 09:32:17 UTC

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